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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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I have not visited that part of Australia, or in fact any part of the western half of my country, so I can't really comment. Although the kind of beauty you will see in places like Australia is very much the kind that is the result of the forces of nature operating at random over a long time, not something 'created'.
Understanding something about the age of the Universe is definitely cool, but it really doesn't 'bring meaning and depth into my life" - that is more the cumulative effect of all these bits of knowledge coming together in my head contributing to the feeling that I do 'get it' in a very deep sense.
"My" scientists??? Scientists are NOT some subset of the Atheist community, they serve the whole of society, continually refining everything from the medical knowldge of how we can control the horrible viruses and bacteria which your God, if he exists, is responsible for sending to us and our children, and how to grow more and better quality food to meet the needs of the ever-growing human population, as well as just adding to the sum of human knowledge.
They aren't all atheists, but it is true that among leading scientists, religious belief is not common. Hardly surprising, when a core principle of Science is to not accept any claim not adequately supported by objective evidence. The Motto of the British Royal Society, founded in 1660 as the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge, is "Nullius in verba" (Latin for "on the word of no one" or "Take nobody's word for it"
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The "billon year old light" is not MINE. it is a FACT, one of many that is completely inconsistent with a literal interpretaion of Genesis.
Fonzie, what are your beliefs about the age of the Earth, and Evolution?
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
The Trolls' responses were so repetitive and formulaic that one could practically predict how It would respond
There are no theists on operating tables.
Bob,
I don't think you're researching the age of the earth asking me but maybe for laughs huh? The scientific bog does call for a laugh now and then doesn't it.
I believe God spoke the world into existence in 6 days and rested on the 7th. No I wasn't there but He Was - and He Told us a little about it. Pretty neat GOD. It would be nice to be that productive. But anyway, that's the God of the Bible we're talking about. He says, "Let there be light" and there was light, etc., etc., etc.
As to the age of the earth, which I have already answered, there is a passage in Ecclesiastes that says (paraphrased) "Is there anything that is said to be something new? It has been already in the ages before." I would guess (don't know, it's not revealed) but I would imagine brainstorming with you that God has done all this before: made a world, harvested the wheat, disgarded the chaff. God Knows What He's Doing. Anyway that would mean the earth's materials could be billions old, peg the meter on your counter but older yet. "In the Beginning God" - was already past tense. Go back as far as you can go and God was way before that. I don't think you'll go for that but that's my speculation only. It's not revealed.
Bob, a little note about what are probably differences between you and me. If I'm going anywhere I use GPS (and I very seldom go anywhere). I hate to study maps. My dad was the opposite-he loved to look at maps and imagine he was going there. He had the routes in his head. And I pay no attention to weather - don't care about it, can't make myself listen to a weather report. Weather is like feelings - not worth paying much attention to beyond avoiding freezing.
You and I Bob are probably about as different as we can be which is fine with me and I find that part of life interesting. Faith in Christ would bring us together in a unique way no matter how different we are - and I've seen that first hand in the church. I'm not expecting that out of you though and I'm ok with you going ahead not believing whatever you don't believe clear to the end. It's your privilege, your God given right to be ignorant and stubborn and unbelieving and blind to miracles all around us and in us and it doesn't bother me. I'm at peace with it.
You have looked at some things in the Bible and they're ridiculous to you - and I'm ok with that too. You don't believe It, you don't believe in Jesus, you don't know, you don't want to know - and you parade it like the drum major of the atheist band really strutting your stuff as if you care for nothing in the world. I want you to know that's ok with me. I support your freedom to not believe and stick with your unbelief as if you created yourself. But know that all the time I wish you did believe in Jesus and the Bible because I know it would be better for you in every way. You don't know that but it is true - I know it's true (and I know you don't believe me but it is true - whether you do or don't - take my word for it and don't forget it).
There is a really good video touring SW Australia - you ought to watch it. There's a desert with a bunch of stones sticking up, a lighthouse where it blows about 52mph all the time, beautiful beaches with clear water snorkling - Bob it's evolved out of nothing and exploded into a beautiful scenic place down there. It's amazing what a few billion years of no planning and no care can do for a place.
Fonzie, i think weather would be something you could not ignore if your God decided to let you experience a hurricane.
Anyway, I asked about your view on the age of the Earth to try and see if you fitted into any of certain categories of believer, such as YEC ('Young Earth Creationist"
- you do, to a point, but with your own 'spin' on it.
When I ask about the age of the Earth, I am not referring to how long the materials of which it is composed have been around, but how long ago it was formed or 'created'.
What we currently understand is that the Sun formed about 4.6 billion years ago, and the Earth formed sometime after that, but initially was nothing like what it is today; far too hot for any water to exist on it, and no Moon.
Eventually it cooled sufficiently for liquid water to appear on its surace, probably brought by comets colliding with the Earth.
After a couple of billion years, plants appeared in the oceans, and after another couple of billion years, appeared on land, followed by animals.
Sometime over this period, the body which became our Moon was captured.
So Fonzie, did God describe any of this in his conversation with you? The process took a few billion years....
Oh, and did he tell you why he created all the cute germs and viruses to infect us with?
And can you point to at least one of these miracles that you say are all around us?
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
The Trolls' responses were so repetitive and formulaic that one could practically predict how It would respond...
There are no theists on operating tables.
"I believe that Allah spoke the word into existence"
"I believe that Yahweh spoke the world into existence"
"I believe that Ra spoke the world into existence"
"I believe that Thor makes lightening"
We really do not care what you "believe". You have no more evidence for your fictional invisible magic sky hero than there is evedence for any of the examples I made above.
The earth is 4 billion years old. The earth was around before any human concocted any god claim. The universe is 14 billion years old, and also was arround before any human made up any god claim. In the future billions of years from now, our species will go extinct and our planet will die, as well as our sun, and the universe will continue on without any record of you or any god claim invented in human history.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Bob,
Yes you better hold on to your hat if there's a hurricane. I've been close to tornados - about 10 hit when I visited my brother. We went outside and saw one but it didn't hit us. My times are in God's Hand, and I'm ready to die any time - but I'm not planning on promoting it.
All of your "we currently understand" stuff is speculation, high level BS which I know has a way of really impressing you and has become an intricate part of your all knowing identity.
Then there's your characterization of "my little conversation with God" - which is of course your arrogant way of mischaracterizing the fact that I read and believe the Word of God. He Speaks to us in His Word - GOD wouldn't be said to "speak to you" because you have your ears plugged lest you hear something.
So then you survey the moon and sun, plants, animals and "probably comets banged into something" and generously sprinkle in a few "billion years" at every juncture like salt and pepper on your speculative time travel account to make it sound historically big and a mind blowing unreachable possibility I guess - all speculation of the deepest dye but you believe it all if it pleases you, call it science - el facto, and believe IN it, and have your faith vested in it because it is your "chosen endeared faith"- it makes you "Bob in the know" and it serves as your answer/ non answer to all questions of God Creating and anything else. You know and you know you know that it's not like the Bible says it is - because that's not what you think and what you think is it brother.
Now back to your disdain for God with the presence of germs. Has it occured to you that man (which would include you Bob) has messed things up? And God has given man the freedom - you included - to mess things up and even blame Him? Even reject His Son and spit in His Face. That's the freedom and respect you have been allowed in your research and survey, dissertation pontificating and presentation. You talk about a God you don't believe exists but in your arrogant speculation you discuss what you think He has and Has Not Done that doesn't fit your criteria of what you don't believe in and couldn't accept but you don't hesitate to judge the speculation you dream up and have foisted out in ignorance of God (which ignorance I guess you also have faith in along with your billion billion time travel science fiction).
But my answer to your germ question is that God is God. He Gives Life and He takes it away. My attitude toward God is: Everything He does is Exactly Right. Someday that will be seen clearly by all - now we see it as through a glass darkly. At the present time you need fear of God and faith in God and His Word to see the Righteousness of God in Christ - all of which you happily reject and substitute instead your own lies, mischaracterizations, speculations and your denied faith yet faith indeed in what is falsely called knowledge.
I think your lack of faith in God is the miracle you're looking for - the miracle you live and breathe every moment - a miracle of unbelief, blindness and self deception. You are leaning against a tree looking for the forest. You are drowning in a sea of unbelief that's only 3 feet deep.
Mrs Betty Bowers (AKA America's Best Christian) "Thanking God for sparing you in a natural disaster is like sending a thank-you note to a serial killer for stabbing the family next door.".
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
The Trolls' responses were so repetitive and formulaic that one could practically predict how It would respond...
And there is no "best christian". god does not play favorites with his sheep.
There are no theists on operating tables.
1. Light was present from way before the formation of the Earth, so there was no 'Let there be light' event.
2. When Earth was formed, there was no water on its surface - that came a long time after. So there were no 'ocean depths' as described in Genesis - the land was there first, and for a long time there was only dry land. When it had cooled down enough for liquid water to exist, the first oceans began to form, no doubt in several places, and gradually joined up.
3. Life initially emerged in the oceans, and much later spread to the land. Flowering plants emerged much later. They certainly did not all just emerge at one time as Genesis decribes. Genesis has life entering the ocean after life on land, whereas the truth is that life formed in the oceans first.
4. 'Lights across the sky' were also there from way before the Earth was formed. The sun was definitely formed before the Earth. The Moon shines during the day equally as much as at night. It is the Sun which determines Day and Night, according to whether it is visible from your location.
So Genesis in no way accurately descibes the formation of the Earth, Sun and other heavenly bodies, or the emergence of life.
It is further proof that the Bible is not the word of an all-knowing truthful God.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
The Trolls' responses were so repetitive and formulaic that one could practically predict how It would respond...
There are no theists on operating tables.
You are confusing the use of the word 'light' to refer to the radiation that allows us to see the world around us with with the metaphorical use to refer to 'wisdom' and such. You are dishonestly twisting things to try and justify your point of view.
We have the remains of material and objects which WERE there, and they all point to what I described. Whereas you only have words which you believe are, but in no way can prove are, the words of your God.
When you say the words are not meant to be science lessons, that is true, but does not mean they were not intended to convey truths, which they don't. They convey what was believed to be true by the people writing them at the time, but which we now have good reasons to think are mistaken.
You need to do more thsn simply claim they are true, you need to show what you base that claim on.
I am trying to show that God is a set of ideas in the minds of believers, not in any sense a real being consisting of cells and atoms. The 'moral' lesson of Genesis is the contemptible assertion that it is ok to punish people for the 'sins' of their ancestors, so it is not a source of either physical or moral truths.
Your ignorance is truly impressive.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
So , Fonzie if babies die, or an innocent percent dies because of disease or crime that is all ok with you? If nothing happens that God does not want to happen what you are saying is that humans are merely his property, toys, lab rats.
So if a 4 or 5 year old gets aducted, raped and butchered by a child molester, or a 4 or 5 year old or baby dies from famine in Africa, that is fine with you because God has a plan?
"I can do what I want" is your expination?
Nice. If that is the rule you don't mind Kim Jong Un would be a great ruler too because he doesn't need the consent of those he rules over either.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Wow... Fonzie, that response shows me far more clearly than any previous one just how deeply you are into your fantasy world, and your extreme unthinking arrogance in dismissing scientifically established knowledge as 'purest speculation of the deepest dye', while you accept as 'knowledge' stuff which really does fit that description. There is a mountain of evidence for the findings of Science, nothing for God.
Then you accuse me of arrogance in referring to your "little conversation with God" - you added the word 'little' in there to allow you to accuse me of arrogance. I referred to "your conversation with God" simply because you seemed to me to be going beyond simply quoting scripture, as some believers do. Ok, you've clarified that, thanks.
Man did not create germs, your God did (if he exists). In older times, we had a number of practices which no doubt made it easier for germs to spread and infect us, which have largely been addressed in modern, more advanced, cultures. And God is OK with the fact that these diseases often aflict the poor much more than the rich?
You really are stuck in the idea that 'might makes right', so everything God does is Right, because He is the Boss.
The existence of God is simply an unproven, almost certainly unprovable, baseless assumption, as is the assumption that He is 'good' and 'perfect'. A being that would create Satan is good??! You must be kidding!
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
The Trolls' responses were so repetitive and formulaic that one could practically predict how It would respond...
There are no theists on operating tables.
Evolution is a simple and undisputable truth - it is up to the opponents to show why it wouldn't work.
Death was in the world from the beginning, so Genesis is just ignorant myth, a lame attempt to 'explain' and justify why a just God would introduce suffering into the world.
A shepherd does not have the moral right to treat his flock with cruelty for no good reason.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
God is a creation of the mind of Man.
The belief in a God allows the believer to justify any act which can be interpreted as endorsed by their personal interpretation of whatever text they believe is the 'word' of that god, regardless of errors of logic or fact that that interpretation may contain. So it is a very flimsy basis for such beliefs and any implied morality. We see one consequence of this in the many conflicts between different groups of religious believers around the world. The nastiest aspect of this is how it allows the believers to wrap any accepted traditions and customs of a culture in the authority of religion, with little or no serious justification.
Since religions do not rely on rigorous demonstration of the truth of their claims, but typically use what in a general scientific or philosophical context would be called 'special pleading', their 'arguments' starting from the naked assumption of the truth of their central doctrines, such as the existence of their particular deity, so literally 'anything goes', whether people outside the tradition would regard it as good or evil. This is why Christopher Hitchens called Religion 'poison' - anything from the extremes of good or evil can be incorporated into a religion, logic and reason and evidence can be utterly ignored if it suits the believer.
Once the doctrines have been passed on a few times, the actual thinking which led to the doctrines is soon forgotten, and they are seen as ultimately originating in the religion itself, endorsed by whatever spritual or divine authority is regarded as the ultimate grounds of the belief system.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Brian37,
Be assured every evil deed will be punished - just as mercy is now offered (a deal that seems too Great to be True - but IT IS). "And just as it is appointed for men to die once and after that comes judgment so Christ having been offered Once to Bear the sins of many will Appear a second time not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him."
Your heresy of atheism sees no "wrap up" of this test of life where man is blessed with gifts (one of them being freewill) but also responsibility. You value your freewill as much as anybody - but you essentially say man has no responsibility for that freewill; but in fact, the whole universe needs to be responsibile to "you" - including God (in your thinking) Who you don't believe in or believe IS... then in your bag of deceptive weights and measures of judgment you ignore the lie that is your thinking that all these injustices will just end in silence - dead as a hammer, ha. You are the one with no justice or destiny in your thinking - then you blame God for your faulty thinking and congratulate yourself for your insight.
So prate on and be damned if you're determined but know that your freewill means there is also the option of mercy if you ever want to confront yourself and turn and believe the Word of God. The come down is probably your barrier - the "Brian on the throne comedown" the admission that Brian really doesn't know squat. If you refuse mercy in Christ you will find yourself being "taken" - in the ultimate - by the one who stole your fries - and have only your own pride to blame. And you can then spend quality time with those thugs you mentioned as you take your sins on yourself. But know that the responsibility lies with you then and now - not with any fault in the God Who Sent His Son as a Propitiation for your sins - if you would accept and believe in Him you will be saved. Throwing out pride is a small price to pay for survival.
But...you don't believe in God - you also don't believe Satan is real and working, deceiving, lying, operating as a wolf in sheep's clothing, like a lion ready to devour. That makes the world a puzzling place, huh. So don't rail against the One With The Answer.
And yes, babies die (if they aren't murdered by a doctor in the name of science) - but there will be an accounting and all these things will not go unpunished. Everything will be made right in the end. I am happy to repent and have my sins all washed away in the Blood of the Lamb of God - and now I am alive in Him. I have "put on" Christ as a wedding garment. I have accepted the "Righteousness of God" in the Life, Death and Resurrection of Christ. All the Glory and Life is His. I'm putting all my trust in Him not in myself.
He also dwells with me and in me (I'm not alone) - He has also given me the Gift of the Holy Spirit which Illuminates my path in this darkness and also Illuminates the Word of God which is Living and Active, Sharper than any Two Edged Sword piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. The law of God is being written on my heart and I know my Master's Voice.
And in that illuminated Word of God my qualms are put to rest with statements (and there are many of them) like this: "be assured an evil man will not go unpunished but those who are righteous will be delivered". So the fact is Brian you just have some big gaps in your understanding of what is, what was and what is to be - almost as big as the gaps in evolution.
"As big as the gaps in evolution"? So...his understanding of your position is almost airtight?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
dp
I hate the word "mystery". It is far too rooted in giving humans an excuse to give up in finding answers. If your desire is to protect your ego, your "mystery" is rooted in avoiding reality. Mysteries are not a virtue. The unknown is something to uncover, not hide behind to coddle our superstitions or case of the warm fuzzies.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Brian,
The baby sweaters my wife knits are a mystery to me - but I don't hate it. I just marvel at it - and I'm not the least bit interested in unraveling the sweater or the mystery.
Your hatred of the word "mystery" may instead just be a way to protect your fragile ego from the divine reality of things beyond you (they do exist) not allowing marvel.
As far as my ego - for me to live is Christ, to die is gain... (at least that is my focus moment by moment shared with Paul - but I haven't been stoned or beaten lately so it may just be untested talk. I can't boast putting my armor on as one taking it off).
You're right there are mysteries meant to uncover. The Gospel of Jesus Christ was a Mystery Hidden for ages - a Mystery angels and prophets wanted to look into - now It's Revealed. It's the Glory of God to Conceal Things but the glory of kings is to search Things out. You would tour royally to search out this mystery.
And still there are things not revealed that will always be mystery which the perverse and unbelieving use as an excuse to twist and invent straw-self-revelations they then gleefully reject and ego trip on in fake space.
The door of the Substitutionary death and Resurrection of Christ (being The Truth) would open the door (He IS The DOOR) to uncovering many many mysteries (and that should truly interest you if you're not fooling yourself) - and enables accepting the unrevealed mysteries in real faith and real hope and strength and steadfastness that sees and illuminates and lives beyond death.
Why, little children, oh why
Could you not just let sleeping Trolls lie *?
For it seemed that Meph/Fonz
Had just finally moved ons,
Now you've gone and re-opened the sty.
* lie -
There are no theists on operating tables.
No one has started a religion based on your wife's sweaters. No one is condemning gays or slamming planes into buildings over your wife's sweaters.
Not learning how to knit doesn't make knitting super natural or the product of magic.
Now like even some atheists here, you also falsely accuse me of hate and take that out of context.
Damned right I hate claims people utter that have no evidence for them. That is a seperate issue than human rights. You have the right to claim your wife's sweaters make ice cream without human help. You have the right to claim the New York Yankees won the Superbowl. That empathy on my part is not just for you, but because I also want the right to say what I want without fear of harm by others.
Still a separate subject, that when you quote a book, or make sound waves with your voice, or type a claim in social media, my concern is EVIDENCE.
I could give one crap less what you like believing and your personal rights as far as government protecting you no one is disputing. But the fact remains you have nothing but an old book of myth full of scientific absurdities and contraditicions written by people who could not have known what we know now. I find absolutely no value in clinging to old books of myth. We have survived fine with no longer buying claims of Apollo, or Isis or Thor. I think our species can move on without your god claims too.
We currently do not know scientifically what is beyond the background radiation of the big bang. But incerting claims from a bronze age book of myth full of talking donkeys and men magically popping out of dirt, will never constitute evidence outside people were ignorant enough to swallow that crap back then. It was understandable when humans didn't know better, but we know better now.
I do not hate you, I do hate any and all naked assertions anyone makes. I do hate the fact that my species has far too much of a tendency to cling to bad claims merely because they are afraid of our finite reality. That "hate" is not of my species, that "hate" is of our species bad use of logic.
So put the word "hate" in context when you use it.
"Mystery" does not mean the same thing to science as it does to a believer. Just like I hate it when believers twist "law" used by scientists as meaning "law giver". "Law" used in scientific language is NOT implying a factory owner or cosmic cop. "Law" is merely a discriptive term that when scientist see something over and over and over, they use "law" as a discription of observation that does not change.
You have a very utopian romatic view of the world and reality is not perfect or romantic even with the pretty and good in it. That is the problem with our species, we have far too much of a desire to hide behind our feelings than to accept reality the way it is. Religion is merely one symptom of fear of reality and protecting one's ego. But it is not just you and it is not just one religion.
I am sure you love your wife as much as I love my own mother, but that has nothing to do with her knitting merely being knitting. You simply like that feeling of seeing her do that. I get the same feelings when my mom does things I like seeing her do.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
It was still quite easy...
There are no theists on operating tables.
Ahahaha!
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Brian,
I was evidently quoting an unsure source (?) about you hating mystery - you.
You might sense that if I am right having total confidence in Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures you are wrong - and maybe you hate being wrong (I don't know what you hate or who really) - that wouldn't be uncommon though.
If you are right - I am wrong. That possibility doesn't concern me at all Brian. The thing for you to do is make sure you have airtight evidence for what you believe and trust and have confidence in - but consider that the former scientists whose conclusions you now disdain will soon be you by the next.
Jesus, God, The Holy Spirit and The Scriptures give me a flowing stream of evidence every moment every day. I admit the evidence isn't scientific (which will be outmoded) - it's spiritual, eternal, unseen - yet seen by the eyes of faith, the fire of God which I aim to keep stoked, ashes removed and sword guarded.
You don't want it, you don't need it, and/so you don't have it. You've got what you want and I don't want what you've got, you can have it all. I am showing you the respect of telling you the truth as I see it - not pulling punches because that wouldn't be a favor or the truth. Accept it or reject it - and what you decide is what you decide. The heart knows its own bitterness and no stranger shares its joy.
Re :: ''Take care, brethren, that there not be in any . . . '' (No Subject)
*Note* Attn. -- To :: 0ff - site ::
Oh yea, I am well aware that you gullibly drank the Cool Aid. Just like when a kid insists Santa is real.
You want it, but you really don't need it, on top of having no evidence for it.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
The Trolls' responses were so repetitive and formulaic that one could practically predict how It would respond...
Evolution is santa for grown-up atheists. Chimpanzees turning into humans makes as much sense as flying reindeer.
You need jesus' salvation, but really don't want it, since you'd rather focus on this life than the eternal life to come.
jesus gave his life for us. That's all the evidence you should need, or want.
There are no theists on operating tables.
"We currently do not know scientifically what is beyond the background radiation of the big bang. But 'incerting' claims from a bronze age book of myth full of talking donkeys and men magically popping out of dirt will never constitute evidence outside people were ignorant enough to swallow that crap back then..." (quote from Brian above)
Brian,
You have your rights to your choices and your opinion and your view of your opinion and your view of your opinion's opinion of other's opinion and also your imagination of what their view is and your view of that imaginary scene. You are a piece of booted up creation and animated dirt too with rights and decisions and opinions and probably rhythm music - not wanting or needing anything more.
But as for what you "KNOW" unquestionably... supported by this - "evidence thing" - all you atheists blow about... I think all of you are operating on a postage stamp of certainty.
I've heard this "I only accept things supported totally by evidence" thing over and over from you atheists (while scorning and scoffing at faith while they play this card), but I have ask atheists again and again this question:
What have you come up with? that you are totally sure of ? I've only gotten answers like "well, gravity...and blah, blah, on from there...". Ok, I get gravity but that doesn't answer the questions of life - that both life and atheists bring up.
Brian, you don't KNOW that bang thing happened, you weren't there (and you essentially admit that above) so it's speculation and faith;
And even though there are a bunch of scientists tap dancing (to music only they hear or like or would know) about it - it's a faith thing which is supposed to be supported by the unreacheable convenience of the of millions, billions of years (which is also a faith thing on their part).
You guys don't know that. You speculate, you say you have evidence that proves it to you - it doesn't to me.
I have evidence The God of The Bible IS REAL Alive and Working in His people that proves itself to me (talking donkeys and all) but not to you. Both however are faith things. You are sure enough in your faith to stay on that road and I am totally sure in my faith in Jesus living in me and I'm planning to follow Him.
But as far as Cool Aid Brian, it seems to me you are the one drinking it not me. For example, I ask you what your "wrap up" for this life is - for those unjust things you mentioned as happening around us in the news past and present. You had no answer from your Cool Aid.
You can talk about your faith in the big bang and get a real bang out of mocking The Word of God (Which will be your judge in the end) but ok how does yourt faith in the "big bang" work?
Where is your wrap up of justice for injustice? What are the conclusions that your big bang bring you to - other than your mocking and scorn for the things in the Bible? Forget the Bible - you have given up your faith in Scripture and quit the race as far as that goes. Now you say you have found "real truth", "real evidence", "real freedom" - "free at last" - ok, so, what is it you have found that answers these injustices and answers life beyond death?
If you don't have answers in your faith for the injustices you brought up...well, it looks like you are the one drinking the coolaid not me Brian. (BTW, I don't drink Cool Aid or pop for that matter)
Re :: Mastering the awkward moment is setting boundaries before engaging
0 f f - s i t e ::
Levity but I can be very serious as you already can tell (wink)
Brb, But first YouTube Video for Mr Fonz --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dyyo6CAedM {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dyyo6CAedM}
Hugs -- (Hugs)
Statistically women have between 12,000 - 16, 000 more words than men do on average
Statistically women have between 12,000 - 16, 000 more words than men do on average
Other Non-site related
Scripture verse of the Day ::
It's a gift (double meaning)
"The one belonging to Ahab, who dies in the city, shall be eaten by dogs, and the one who dies in the field the birds of heaven will eat."
Non-Related to This topic or this Thread --
p.p.s. -- Remember there is no Rush . . .
Bob,
Before Sapient's sock puppet muddies the water with pictures from the ends of the earth and moving distractions (like pouring out frogs and demons) - to cover the dilemma of the atheist -
have you considered the injustice of atheist thinking?
Atheists talk about and lament injustices done and justified "in the name of 'religion' " ("religion" rightly understood is something I am not promoting) - but have you considered Bob that no thinking is as unjust as the atheists'?
Unjust things happen, but the reality is: "Be assured, an evil man will not go unpunished, but the righteous will be delivered."
The atheist is conscious of evil things happening, blames false "religion", ridicules faith in GOD and The Word of GOD - but the atheist thinks there is NOTHING after death: no JUSTICE, no JUDGEMENT, no WRAP UP, no REWARD.
Talk about a lame view of life Bob.....
"Lame" is using an antiquated book of myth to view reality. Sorry Fonzie but we don't use Superman vs Lex Luthor comic books to explain reality.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
The Trolls' responses were so repetitive and formulaic that one could practically predict how It would respond...
There are no theists on operating tables.
Brian,
No, "lame" is the total lie that your bundle of speculations (which go nowhere) aren't based on faith in the speculators.
"lame" is observing injustices right before your eyes yet mindlessly thinking and believing there will be no justice, no wrap-up after death.
"lame" is being satisfied having no answer for fundamentals of life yet strutting around as if you do have that which you can't produce
"lame" is keeping the lie alive, supporting fellow liars, and mocking the Truth Which Is Revealed in Jesus Christ
"lame" is throwing up a distraction rather than facing and answering the question directly
Ahem ! Ahem, Try noticing labels, not making them --
Apparently understood by few; being mysterious or secret
Apparently understood by few; being mysterious or secret
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiG1NRFYvjU {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiG1NRFYvjU}
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/34173 {http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/34173}
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f9/2f/3c/f92f3cb41666b711648a4f5d490f02a4.jpg {https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f9/2f/3c/f92f3cb41666b711648a4f5d490f02a4.jpg}
True "American" hero - ( e.g. -- Navajo Code Talker )
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Yes, I know . . .
Wishing you all well -- Gospel according to John 14:27 -- Peace I leave with you, peace I give unto you: not as the world gives, DO I give .. Oh, Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.
:
Brian,
The conclusion that frank discussion with atheists brings me to is that the atheist' view of life has no substance, so cool aid may indeed be the atheists' breakfast, dinner and supper. There's a "here today, gone tomorrow" mindset that is supported by faith in speculations that don't explain any of the fundamentals of life, death, why we are here, where we are going. It's the cool aid dispenser.
You have no justice in your thinking Brian. A man kills his wife and kids and himself and you think there is no justice beyond death while drinking your cool aid. That is your faith and your lie. That's your cool aid.
The speculations you gather to try to support your ignorance of God and your faith in them don't explain the why or where of life, death or judgment nor do they give you hope.
So you ridicule and attack the position of faith in God and Scripture and Jesus Who Gives Light to all these things and also offers Salvation from them through faith in Him, The Bread of Life, The Water of Life, The Rock of Refuge, The Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world. There is Real Substance and a Continual Feast.
1The Old Troll, starved for attention, could do nothing
2but craft a new response to what It had already responded to,
3Filled with the same fluffy nonsense and evasiveness.
4But the children were tired of Its mendacity, and would feed It no more.
There are no theists on operating tables.
the froggie just "croaks"
"croak croak croak"
but labels as boring
questions unanswered
nervously ignored
by the purposely bored
Philharmonic hoard
froggie dreams he directs
while atheists on vacation
play in their swamp
and pretend it's Maui
I am sorry that you cannot wrap your brain arround facts, that is your baggage not mine. Our species was around long before humans concocted even writing, much less any holy book. Evolution is even older than our species. The planet is older than our species and 14 billion years ago no religion was around. In the future our planet's core will run out of energy and all life will go extinct. Our species will most likely become excinct long before that happens. Our sun too will have an end as well. The universe will continue with no record of our existence or care that we ever existed.
Now you stupidly think that atheists cannot enjoy the finite time we have? You think stupidly that we need your holy book or invisible sky hero which you have no evidence for, to live now and do good? Cant help you with that. But all you have given me and others here is years of naked assertions.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
The Trolls' responses were so repetitive and formulaic that one could practically predict how It would respond...
Even if our species goes extinct, our souls don't have to, thanks to jesus.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Always pays to stick with your strengths
# 4141 What's it been about 14131 posts now, on this site ?
More pearlsofprofundity from the lying sapien, I take it ?!?
Natural-Born Liars
why are we (homo-sapiens) so good at it? Because it works
Well . . no it does not work. You see, sooner or later you are found out.
Brian
You talk about wrapping up the brain with facts... but then you let go a big string of everything BUT facts...billion + years of speculation - furthermore said speculation having no application to future or substance for present. You haven't said what you're 100% sure of (besides gravity which is not understood in the fine points) so I take it as your scientific faith - here today, outmoded and disproved tomorrow.
But as you say - the hoppingly happy atheist is going on down the road with a billion hops just like the energizer bunny with no end in sight.
You haven't touched the question about the supremely unjust atheist view - no wrap up after this life of the things you atheists bring up (that you would never let happen if you were God) but they do happen while you think death is the jonny end of it all.
Do you have a distraction to raise about that from your billion year hopeless baggage?
PS (BTW stupidly speaking there seems to be a pregnancy happening on the billion year timeline of speculation along with sock sapient puppet pasting, water muddying and a bad hair day to boot)
Conveniently ill-informed . . why am I not, at all, surprised by this outcome ?!?? Gee, I wonder ?!?? On and Off site -- you all might want to work on that reading comprehension . . (in the OP's case especially) instead of earning that badge
Delightfully droll (more of that inappropriate sense of humor YOU ALL DO NOT SEEM TO GET)
Non-Labeled --
Isaiah 42 ( Isaiah 42 ) N I V --
16 Fore I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,
along unfamiliar paths I, the LORD your God will guide them;
I will turn the darkness into light before them
and make the rough places smooth.
19 Who is blind but my servant,
and deaf like the messenger I send?
Who is blind like the one in covenant with me,
blind like the servant of the Lord?
20 You have seen many things, but you pay no attention;
your ears are open, but you do not listen.”
Clue to Mr Clueless
But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls. That's a new one.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Um no, see you like the idea of me being wrong because it allows you to falsely think your comic book explinations allow you to play hero. If you can convince yourself falsely that I am evil, you can play hero.
The reason you type your answers on a computer isnt because of a god, but because of science. Scientific method is why we know that the earth is not flat. It is why we have put humans on the moon.
I see nothing evil about accepting that I am finite. It does not take away the time I have now while I am alive. I still find good and joy and empathy. You have been indotcrinated by old myths and convinced yourself falsely that good is a patent invended by a comic book sky hero. I cant stop you from swallowing that garbage. But the reality you don't want to face is that 4 billion years ago humans did not exist and god claims didn't exist. And when our planet dies and sun dies and all life dies on this planet, there will be no record of you or me our any fictional god claim concocted by humans. That does not preclude me from valuing the finite time I have now. It does not preclude me from empathy. I simply don't swallow myths like you do.
I am sorry reality is not sexy enough for you. That is your baggage, not mine. I live fine with out fictional gods.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Brian,
I don't like the idea of you being wrong or even calling it right or rightly liking wrong wrongly. And you don't understand the reality of not being your own hero and not even wanting to be when you have The Real Hero.
Neither do you appear to understand the brain computer preceeded the laptop (the birds preceeded Wright Brothers and bats sonar). And I haven't seen a laptop yet that can run on a hamburger and french fries.
And you have no complaints about the injustice you see or the unknown precipice you are shuffling to (and proud of it) - because you treasure the lie you have immersed yourself in, taped together around you, "this old box" you are living in - the cardboard lie that there is no God, no Designer, no Life after Death, no Wrap-up of everything.
You're ok with injustice and death and all questions because you have your computer to type on and maybe even a little game or something to entertain yourself in your atmospheric lie while you slide the slippery slope.
BTW I value this present time - you're wrong about that too while you are swallowing the biggest myth that there is - ATHEISM
Ahahaha!
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare