It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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BOTH -- Omni/Other Off-Site ::
> (?) Happy Mom's day -- Sister Sister .. remind her I wanted to say hi BOTH -- Omni/Other Off-Site ::
Myself, I am surprised, at this point, *this hasn't been quoted by the OP (Troll going by Fonzie) . . .
NT -- Quoting from the narrative to the book of the Acts of the Apostles * ( *Quoting from the narrative to the book of the Acts of the Apostles )
''. . Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, “What does this babbler want to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods,” because he preached to them Jesus . . And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak? For you are bringing some strange things to our ears .. all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing. Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:
TO THE UNKNOWN GOD Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: “God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, .. though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, . . Truly, these times of ignorance He overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness . .'' (smile)
P.S. -- Just think, some day we ALL will look back on this and laugh, (smile). Only thing, I can tell you who will be laughing last (Off-Site) !
The fool continues to prove his insanity and predictability. The great irony is that he's so stupid and so insane that he, like Brian, is incapable of doing anything more than perpetuate the very thing he desires to snuff out.
Que the theist.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Just let Meph/Fonz and Dread Mistress Dana,
Twerk it off in their own macarena.
Let his proselytized malt
And her rambling gestalt,
Settle which of the two's more insana.
There are no theists on operating tables.
Funnily neither holds a candle to the fool.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Vas,
I'm starting to suspect that you're short on faith capital to the point of embarrassing such that you're trying to cover it raising formulaic distractions.
Until the theist can comprehend English sufficiently to understand the multiple definitions of faith, he becomes stuck in the mud with his tires spinning futily.
Que the fool, who is in a similar position, though for a different cause.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
1The Feeder, who was in a similar position, though for a different cause,
2Dutifully took his turn in the Queue again,
3Though it was still quite easy...
There are no theists on operating tables.
^ The fool again does exactly as predicted and continues to prove his ineffective insanity. Reading his foolishness isn't necessary. We will simply que the theist.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Re :: In the ear spoken in closets will be proclaimed at housetops
Vas,
Would you expand on those multiple definitions of faith you have experienced and are experiencing that has given your tractor traction? Since you truly understand them you should be able to put them in terms that even I can understand though stuck in the mud with tires spinning futily.
Also, do you know any atheists (maybe far, far away expert atheists or late evaporated atheists) who know anything for certain - other than "certain of not-knowing" and "certain of no theist knowing anything for certain"? If they do or they did what did they know they knew?
You're right I can't comprehend atheism or atheists or atheist thinking or atheists' vacuum of faith they have no faith or the reason why the atheist arrived there how he got there or even more why he stays there. It's been described as "not collecting stamps" and a freedom to "pursue the proven" but the pursuit of the proven hasn't produced a known certain thing yet. Every principle of physics and science open to the atheist is open to all who Believe in and fear God, the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS for exploration of what He's Created and Spoken Into Existence and application of those principles. The atheist has no inside track on any of that just because of what he doesn't know and Who he doesn't know. He flaunts that "not knowing" as if it's a plus - which is part of the whole puzzle of atheism. If he does it with a British accent he's even more novel in his not knowing and mocking of What and Who he doesn't know. The poor man with understanding will find him out as the Proverb goes.
Theists should learn how to use dictionaries.
Theists are lazy.
The theist tries to recover the point he failed on, but is doomed to fail repeatedly and infinitely.
Atheists have faith ^1. They just don't have faith ^2.
The theist fails to realise that putting the bar so high will result in infinite uncertainty for infinite time.
Strictly speaking, only a fool lives as if things that are 99% certain were not certain. It isn't 100% certain that blowing my head up would kill me, but I'm sufficiently confident that I won't try it just to make certain. Especially since even if it appears to kill me it still won't be certain that it killed me.
The theist lies. There are some definitions of god that don't attempt to thwart physics and the known scientific laws, but none of the abrahamic gods qualify.
Quite the contrary. The typical theist must cherry pick science which undermines his or her ability to comprehend science. This gives the atheist a significant advantage.
The theist cannot comprehend that this is a point on which there is no disagreement between intelligent atheists and theists. Proving the theist isn't particularly intelligent.
The theists inability to understand makes his opinions irrelevant.
Que the insane fool.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
1The Feeder again did exactly as predicted and continued to prove his ineffective insanity.
2Reading his stock responses wasn't necessary, since by his own admission,
3He had already said it several times before; not to mention that it was still quite easy...
4And the Feeder waited in the Queue for his turn to say "Que [sic] the..."
There are no theists on operating tables.
I have a failure rate of 0 in predicting the actions of two idiots over the span of months here. I'm so awesome. Que the theist.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Vas,
Maybe you didn't notice or thought nobody else would notice that though you've got a failure rate of 0 you haven't really answered anything for quite a while now - it's just been a "back at you" side step bull fight maneuver. Are you ashamed of your atheist position? Are you not able to describe or defend it openly? Does it not stand on solid reasoning which you can freely share without qualms? Why this empty ended mockery?
It's sound and reasonable to think that a truly knowledgeable guy wouldn't have to talk about how smart he is and how idiotic others are. But since you are admittedly smart why not go ahead and show how solid your tenants of atheism stand - and on what they stand...instead of this Canadian brush off shadow dance fandango. I told you I don't understand the why what when who or how of atheism or this many splendored definition of faith you hold dear and live by but as yet haven't laid out from your lofty fortress. Are you just hedging and trying to wear the question down with this filler?
I have laid out the simplicity of the gospel - how God is giving Salvation to men and women who do no more, no less than believe in Jesus Christ. Faith is the substance of things hoped for - the evidence of things not seen - sound faith enabling being certain. Faith in God and Jesus brings increasing certainty because the more you know God and Jesus and the Word of God the more and more certain everything is true as described. These things are written that you may KNOW you have eternal life. Knowing Jesus IS Eternal Life - Eternal Life has already started as we know Jesus and walk by faith it's with growing certainty. Jesus is Alive - and with us - and we pursue knowing Him with all the Strength He creates within us. In the end faith will become sight and the unseen eternal seen.
So ok, what are these all wise doctrines of atheism you've been blowing about? If you've got answers for the hoi polloi let's hear them if you're not afraid or ashamed of them...
On and especially those Off-Site --
Re :: Subject(s) & object are intertwined but Ruin, IF authorship is lost!
Down with bearing problems and front wheel hub assembly replacement so more forced time off, so I thought I'd share (mischievous elf)!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3SLLtsTFpU {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3SLLtsTFpU}
Now we, both of them, recall who made his dwelling among us, and who came, full of grace and truth, Obliterating subtlety to the four winds ((Obliterating subtlety to the four winds))
Apocalypse of St. John the Divine -- Chapter XII ::
''Now a great sign appeared in heaven fore a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. Then great dragon was cast out (casted out) . . Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God . .''
p.s. -- Assembled in no time (~double meaning). No, assembly in no time, so what do you know (*blush*) !
The theist fails to realise that when he repeats the same argument over and over, he'll get refuted by the same argument over and over.
The theist projects his shame and insecurities.
Quite the contrary. When surrounded by idiots, it is quite reasonable to point it out.
The validity of the atheist position has been described no less than 100 times in this topic, by myself alone. When including other atheists arguments the number approaches or surpasses the thousands. That the theist has never been able to respond to that validity and must resort to accusations of the very thing he has been doing for years is quite telling.
This is the theist admitting his stupidity. Despite the fact that atheism has been logically described and verified countless times, he still can't understand it. Thus he is not capable of understanding it.
And the theist was subsequently refuted every time.
True.
False. Faith is never evidence for anything except the existence of faith itself.
A delusion.
A delusion.
Lies written thousands or years ago are the same as lies written today.
Delusions. If jesus existed and were alive today, people like the theist would make him ashamed.
The theist should reread the topic, as what he asks for already resides within.
Que the insane fool.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
1 The Feeder, puppet to his own inflated sense of accomplishment,
2 Returned to repeat the same responses no less than the 100th time,
3 To the same arguments the Troll had made for no less than the 100th time,
4 All for the sake of his imaginary Audience,
5 Who surely enjoyed reading the same exchange for no less than the 100th time,
6 Though it was still quite easy...
7The Feeder waited in the queue to congratulate himself,
8For predicting there would be a response.
9It was only out of sheer modesty he didn't seek further self-adulation,
10For predicting his own place in the queue...
There are no theists on operating tables.
^ So predictable and simple minded. Que the theist.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Nice try Vas,
This has always been the second fall back for the atheist (first: mock, ridicule, blaspheme) - then next what you've tried again: "Oh, we answered that 100 times long, long ago." It never happened of course because there are no answers of substance, the atheist isn't sure of anything, it's all faith in his speculation (and those with the same faith) and one lie supported by back up lies and old lies and former lies and lies about lies - maybe stated with a resonator and British accent to boot.
Now for the 100th time the Canadian atheist simply trots out the tried and true no answer again billed as the answer which again is no answer, ridiculed line by line thinking he has accomplished something of substance. He has no answer and he has freely given it again and again. As far as getting atheists facing that fact it would be easier to restrain the wind or hold oil in the hand. As to who can blow louder I yield to the atheist who has nothing else but blow in said blowing but blows harder and harder rather than admit that quiet fact.
The theist experiences this so often because the theist must always lie to everyone and himself in order to keep his faith. In reality, the questions were answered time and time again, but the theist always ignored the answers. Thus he pretends the answers were never given, even when those answers are right in front of him and in plain sight for all the world to see.
Switch the word atheist for theist and the word British for Australian and this quote becomes true.
Again the theist describes himself. And we can que the fool.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
The Feeder continued to protect his emotional investment, by repeating for no less than the 101st time, what the Old Troll would ignore for no less than the 101st time, though it was still quite easy...
The atheist is a fool who has said in his heart "there is no god", when god has offered him the Truth time and time again. He pretends the wisdom of the Lord was never given, even when that wisdom is right in front him and in plain sight for all the world to see.
And the Feeder popped in again (predictably) to make his gratuitous "...predictable...que the..." blurb.
There are no theists on operating tables.
^The fool continues to prove his insanity while I laugh at the futility of his foolishness.
Que the theist.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Vas,
Later you can and probably will refer back to this as an "answer" to all the questions; and I'll admit it's as much an answer as you've ever given concerning what atheism does for you and what you're certain of in your faith's corporate speculations. You can call it an answer if you want - so if you're satisfied with it you can have it. Nothing about atheism means anything to me - nor does it seem to mean anything to those that call themselves atheists. I guess it's selling out for a bowl of soup or making cake out of manure - manure cake. Whatever.
The theist makes no sense whatsoever. There aren't any questions that his post answers, nor is there any questions that require answering.
Since that has in fact been answered in great detail, the theist is lying. Ironically he'll have a much worse time than myself if there's an afterlife where you get judged by a god. Here he is bearing false witness. I am not.
This was also explained in detail. However, I think the theist is not smart enough to comprehend it, so he can be forgiven.
Oh the irony. The theist nails it right on the head, but doesn't comprehend it.
Poor fool.
Que the fool.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
OFF-Site --
RE :: ''Driven from the post or I noticed you looking at another girl'"
No Subject ( No Subject, so try viewing the Upload ) --
View Uploaded Image and/or Image(s) ::
The Feeder laughed to distract from the futility of his own foolishness, insanely performing for his imaginary audience,
While it was still quite easy...
And the Feeder (predictably) hurried back to perform his "So predictable...que the <...>" routine.
There are no theists on operating tables.
^ Predictably useless as always. Que the theist.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Ah, Fonzie, how has life been treating you?
This thread has been around so long, I'm starting to feel nostalgic just looking at it.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Nostalgia ran strong, for the fruitful discussions of days past, when the Old Troll would respond in a straightforward and honest manner...
There are no theists on operating tables.
Lol, yes. Good times. It feels like so long ago. I've moved away from that quoting line by line style too.
Edit: I think......from about 2008-2010 was when I really developed my current worldview.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Apparently Christians like Fonzie and JesusLovesYou have some kind of mental breakdown when they are confronted by their own "Christian Logic®". They eventually refuse to answer the most simple of questions and instead resort to bloviated obfuscation in order to deflect "hard" questions from those mean, awful atheists.
I'd say JesusLovesYou's response was more honest than Fonzie's. He said something like, 'That question is unanswerable because I have faith.'
I can't argue with that. Hah.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Faith or not, JLY's non-answer to my question which was repeated four times ( Do you still hold to your pronouncements "Common atheist flaws" ) was the very defintion of tangential speech. http://psychologydictionary.org/tangential-speech/
They're both the same side of the same coin. Both are fake theists who do a fair job of pretending to be theists for awhile, but they slip up often enough to see the bullshit.
Still, the fact that the site gets hundreds of visitors a day who may not notice the slipups combined with the fact that more often than not the fake theists seem like real theists makes it worthwhile to constantly step on them as if they were theists.
It's funny that the fool is too stupid to recognise such a simple reality.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Butterbattle
What's your current worldview?
Hmmm, that's a tough question. Obviously, I'm an atheist, but that doesn't really get to the meat of the matter (not to mention it's not a worldview). Because, if I was presented with sufficient evidence of there being a god, I would probably become a theist. Perhaps the situation would never occur with an omni-max god like the one in Christianity or Islam, etc., but a more general 'higher being' type of god, sure. With that in mind, the best way to explain MY worldview would probably be to describe it in terms of how and why I believe, rather than what I believe?
I'm a scientific naturalist, also known as methodological naturalism. (yes, I realize Fonzie will not process any of this. I can still write it for the benefit of everyone else) This means that I only look for natural laws and forces as operating in our universe, nothing supernatural. Note that this is distinguished from ontological naturalism in that I don't assume the supernatural doesn't exist, only that if they do, they have no effect on our universe as they are defined. This is important. Many people would say that I am closed-minded about the supernatural, and so, I ignore the evidence. I contend that this is definitively impossible, and it is a strawman based on a misunderstanding of my worldview. I will analyze any evidence as it comes, but then it is evidence from the natural world, NOT the supernatural because supernatural evidence is an oxymoron.
When it comes to morality, I do appreciate utilitarianism and virtue ethics (Kant, not so much). They don't get at what morality is, though. On that topic, I would have to say I'm a moral subjectivist. Morals are preferences; some are extremely strong preferences that might be shared by most of humanity, but preferences at the end of the day. In my view, all of morality is sort of one giant naturalistic fallacy. I feel that objective morality is broken in the following sense. Conceptually, how can someone prove to me that a moral choice or feeling is correct if it contradicts my own? If there was an all powerful god, and he asserted that torturing innocent children was objectively good, what does that prove? That's just an appeal to authority.
My positions on politics simply follow from the above. Right now, I'm tentatively a moderate libertarian.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
The limp down Memory Lane dredged up many warm memories, such as the Old Troll's refusal to answer simple questions, and resort to bloviated obfuscation, which was still quite easy...
There are no theists on operating tables.
^The fool is still a fool.
Fuck you Butter! You killed my streak!
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Butterbattle,
You're right I'm not processing it. So that works well for you huh?
Uh, yes.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Butter - are you certain about all that?
^The theist keeps going on about a line of reasoning I already refuted.
Thanks to Butter I don't know what to que so I'll just que everything. Bastard. lol
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
It seemed that it was becoming even easier to duplicate the Troll's chatter...
There are no theists on operating tables.
I think it's almost time to give this game a ride; yeah, better than when it's too late, huh ?!?
Wordless Lil Monster(s) --
View wrenching & Poignant Image --
Yay for the insane fool. Now for the theist. Unless he admits defeat.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Are you asking me if I'm certain that my worldview is my worldview? Yes, I am.
Are you asking me if I'm certain that my worldview is correct? That depends on what we're talking about, specifically. I am certain about my main points in post #4287 , although I feel like using the world "certain" to describe them might be in danger of committing a category error. Scientific naturalism, as I presented it, is essentially pragmatism built on a tautology. Moral subjectivism seems unfalsifiable since moral objectivism, as I define it, is a broken concept.
If you're asking me if I'm certain that "it works for me".......yes, probably? See, I don't quite understand what that means. I don't understand what is "it" or what it means for it to "work." I try to believe in things based solely on whether I think they are true or not. In that sense, what "works," works for everyone and what doesn't work, doesn't work for anyone. Ergo, for you to say, "it works for me" or "works for you," seems to imply philosophical relativism and that you'd swallow the blue pill every time.
If you're asking me whether it made my life better or something like that....I'm not sure about that either. I don't know how my life would've progressed if I believed something different than what I currently believe. However, I am content in always striving towards what seems to be the best approximation of reality.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Butter,
Is your "world view" like an "ap" with regular updates?
"It Works for Me" - references some tried walking by faith in Christ then gave up as not "working" for them.
Wow......okay, I think I'll stop there for now. Your turn, Zara; try to top that one.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Theism doesn't work for anyone. People say it works, but noone can show that it does.
The insane fool is up next.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
1The Feeder rudely jumped queue to make out of turn his fruitless contribution to the fruitless discussion.
2Nonetheless, it was still quite easy...
There are no theists on operating tables.