It works for me!
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Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
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Offline Fonzie,
He wasn't in the manger when the Magi arrived. They found a house to stay in and the kid was a toddler by then.
If you're going to use the story, get it right.
Jc,
You illustrate the point. You pass right by the Savior to argue inn details.
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Offline Jc,
You illustrate the point. You pass right by the Savior to argue inn details.
Details which you found necessary to mention.
He illustrates his own point, which you are again ignoring.
Why do you keep talking to him if you're only going to end up ignoring his points anyway ?
Just go away.
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Offline jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie,
He wasn't in the manger when the Magi arrived. They found a house to stay in and the kid was a toddler by then.
If you're going to use the story, get it right.
Jc,
You illustrate the point. You pass right by the Savior to argue inn details.
That's funny. I thought that I was arguing that you believe in a story that you've obviously never read.
Have you actually read the Bible or do you just "love and believe" what you've been told about it?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie,
He wasn't in the manger when the Magi arrived. They found a house to stay in and the kid was a toddler by then.
If you're going to use the story, get it right.
Jc,
You illustrate the point. You pass right by the Savior to argue inn details.
That's funny. I thought that I was arguing that you believe in a story that you've obviously never read.
Have you actually read the Bible or do you just "love and believe" what you've been told about it?
So Jc,
You want to have all the details right in your eyes - even details not revealed.......before not believing Jesus Is Who He Says He Is???
Aren't you like a guy thinking he knows how to swim, wants to argue it in great detail - though reveals he has never actually swam in water (except when formed and nourished in the womb by the Maker he rejects)?
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Offline So Jc,You want to have all the details right in your eyes - even details not revealed.......before not believing Jesus Is Who He Says He Is???
Was that what he said ? Let's take a look, shall we ?
That's funny. I thought that I was arguing that you believe in a story that you've obviously never read.Have you actually read the Bible or do you just "love and believe" what you've been told about it?
You actually quoted what JC said, but you replied to something else.
Weird.
Try again.
Aren't you like a guy thinking he knows how to swim, wants to argue it in great detail - though reveals he has never actually swam in water (except when formed and nourished in the womb by the Maker he rejects)?
No.
Anything else ?
Then go away.
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Offline jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly wrote:Fonzie,
He wasn't in the manger when the Magi arrived. They found a house to stay in and the kid was a toddler by then.
If you're going to use the story, get it right.
Jc,
You illustrate the point. You pass right by the Savior to argue inn details.
That's funny. I thought that I was arguing that you believe in a story that you've obviously never read.
Have you actually read the Bible or do you just "love and believe" what you've been told about it?
So Jc,
You want to have all the details right in your eyes - even details not revealed.......before not believing Jesus Is Who He Says He Is???
Aren't you like a guy thinking he knows how to swim, wants to argue it in great detail - though reveals he has never actually swam in water (except when formed and nourished in the womb by the Maker he rejects)?
Interesting analogy but it fits you more tightly than me.
See, I've read this book you claim you "love and believe" - it's one of the reasons I stopped believing in your God. You won't even say whether you've read it or not (though you get way too much of it wrong for me too believe that you've read it).
If you want analogies, here's one for you. You remind me of the American Idol contestant who can't sing but believes everyone who tells then that they can. When they face the judges and their lack of talent is revealed, they call the judges liars and insist that they're really talented.
You claim to be telling the truth of God but somehow have completely failed to read the book that his truth is supposedly in. When you are called on it, you insist that you're telling the truth and that the people calling you on it just don't see it.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline idk why ppl these days think there isnt a God and they make fun of christians because they are against doing things that are bad. if you people can answer this then i will humor you
scientest say we evolved from monkeys right? why are there still monkeys? and thst question bout being made from dirt why is there still dirt. red the bible nd it says that he formed us out of dirt as in a basic structure nd then gave us the life we have and also it says that when you die you will return from whence you came which is the dirt thats why u get burried and you rot aand turn into dust if you dont hve ny actual proof tht god doesnt exsist just stop being so ignorant and leave people to belive theyre own thing and also believing in something you might never see is called faith
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Offline idk why ppl these days think there isnt a God and they make fun of christians because they are against doing things that are bad. if you people can answer this then i will humor you
scientest say we evolved from monkeys right? why are there still monkeys? and thst question bout being made from dirt why is there still dirt. red the bible nd it says that he formed us out of dirt as in a basic structure nd then gave us the life we have and also it says that when you die you will return from whence you came which is the dirt thats why u get burried and you rot aand turn into dust if you dont hve ny actual proof tht god doesnt exsist just stop being so ignorant and leave people to belive theyre own thing and also believing in something you might never see is called faith
If you are not a Poe, take this to heart.
Little one, I am giving you a friendly warning.
You are hopelessly outmatched here. This is your chance to leave before you get intellectually beaten.
If you wish to continue then all bets are off.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline idk why ppl these days think there isnt a God and they make fun of christians because they are against doing things that are bad.
I don't know why these days people continue to cling to superstitions to explain the origins of everything when rational and reasonable logic can be applied. It's a very dumb assertion to believe the sole reason for why I do not like Christianity, would have something to do with such subjective terms as good/bad. See, I have the same issue with all ridiculous claims, be they concerning Allah or Yahweh or Shiva. Matter of fact, I have a major problem with Christians imposing what they call "good" and what I call "bad" upon those that do not wish to swallow their nonsense.
thst question bout being made from dirt why is there still dirt. red the bible nd it says that he formed us out of dirt as in a basic structure nd then gave us the life we have and also it says that when you die you will return from whence you came which is the dirt thats why u get burried and you rot aand turn into dust
Hmm, the Koran says that man got formed by water. What makes your claim more believable or valid ?
if you dont hve ny actual proof tht god doesnt exsist just stop being so ignorant and leave people to belive theyre own thing and also believing in something you might never see is called faith
If you don't have any proof that god exists, stop pretending that proves god does exist. Leave Atheists to see that faith is not really all that much of a virtue, it means swallowing something blindly without any proof. I find it interesting that you mention "to believe in something that you may never see". Hmm, so you accept the fact that god could be a fiction ?
Do you really want me to address your evolution question ?
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
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Offline I tried to tell him...
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Offline You asked "why so sarcastic ? " in the title of your post. Read this thread from start to finish, and you'll be wondering why we aren't being more sarcastic.
idk why ppl these days think there isnt a God and they make fun of christians because they are against doing things that are bad. if you people can answer this then i will humor you
Can you show me a single post here where people make fun of other people for being "against doing things that are bad" ?
scientest say we evolved from monkeys right? why are there still monkeys?
Here you go : http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC150.html
and thst question bout being made from dirt why is there still dirt. red the bible nd it says that he formed us out of dirt as in a basic structure nd then gave us the life we have and also it says that when you die you will return from whence you came which is the dirt thats why u get burried and you rot aand turn into dust if you dont hve ny actual proof tht god doesnt exsist just stop being so ignorant and leave people to belive theyre own thing and also believing in something you might never see is called faith
This is an internet forum. We don't force people to post here, so we are in fact, "leaving them to believe their own thing".
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Offline I tried to tell him...
Hehehe. I guess I just couldn't resist.
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Offline If you want analogies, here's one for you. You remind me of the American Idol contestant who can't sing but believes everyone who tells then that they can. When they face the judges and their lack of talent is revealed, they call the judges liars and insist that they're really talented.
You claim to be telling the truth of God but somehow have completely failed to read the book that his truth is supposedly in. When you are called on it, you insist that you're telling the truth and that the people calling you on it just don't see it.
Jc,
Where did you get that analogy - that sounds familiar. Anonymouse would know.
But anyway, you're not the only one that has read the Bible, I heard Hitler did. And, yes I have, several times. But there is a difference - I believe it totally. And one thing I've noticed it doesn't say, "He who wins Bible trivia will be saved" - but "believe in Jesus and you will be saved".
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Offline jcgadfly wrote:If you want analogies, here's one for you. You remind me of the American Idol contestant who can't sing but believes everyone who tells then that they can. When they face the judges and their lack of talent is revealed, they call the judges liars and insist that they're really talented.
You claim to be telling the truth of God but somehow have completely failed to read the book that his truth is supposedly in. When you are called on it, you insist that you're telling the truth and that the people calling you on it just don't see it.
Jc,
Where did you get that analogy - that sounds familiar. Anonymouse would know.
But anyway, you're not the only one that has read the Bible, I heard Hitler did. And, yes I have, several times. But there is a difference - I believe it totally. And one thing I've noticed it doesn't say, "He who wins Bible trivia will be saved" - but "believe in Jesus and you will be saved".
If you believe it how can you not know anything about it?
As for Hitler, rather than simply announcing your concession under Godwin's law, I will agree with you. I'm sure that Hitler, as a good Christian living well within God's will, read the Bible often. If he were alive today I'm sure that Christians around the world would secretly praise his actions against the Jews while castigating them in public. I'm also fairly sure you'd be joining them.
Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commands." As you have yet to do that, I have to go with you either haven't read the Bible or you don't understand it.
Strange for one who loves and believes it...
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline Where did you get that analogy - that sounds familiar. Anonymouse would know.
I believe it refers to some sort of tv-show.
And it's apt ! APT ! ( and if you catch that reference, all is forgiven 
)
But anyway, you're not the only one that has read the Bible, I heard Hitler did. And, yes I have, several times. But there is a difference - I believe it totally.
How is that a difference with hitler ?
And one thing I've noticed it doesn't say, "He who wins Bible trivia will be saved"
If you read JC's posts, you'll notice he doesn't say that either.
Again, I'm forced to wonder why you prefer making stuff up, rather than read what people actually post.
- but "believe in Jesus and you will be saved".
Which you paraphrased as "Believe in jesus or die".
Not exactly a trivial difference, but there you go.
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Offline Fonzie wrote:jcgadfly wrote:If you want analogies, here's one for you. You remind me of the American Idol contestant who can't sing but believes everyone who tells then that they can. When they face the judges and their lack of talent is revealed, they call the judges liars and insist that they're really talented.
You claim to be telling the truth of God but somehow have completely failed to read the book that his truth is supposedly in. When you are called on it, you insist that you're telling the truth and that the people calling you on it just don't see it.
Jc,
Where did you get that analogy - that sounds familiar. Anonymouse would know.
But anyway, you're not the only one that has read the Bible, I heard Hitler did. And, yes I have, several times. But there is a difference - I believe it totally. And one thing I've noticed it doesn't say, "He who wins Bible trivia will be saved" - but "believe in Jesus and you will be saved".
If you believe it how can you not know anything about it?
As for Hitler, rather than simply announcing your concession under Godwin's law, I will agree with you. I'm sure that Hitler, as a good Christian living well within God's will, read the Bible often. If he were alive today I'm sure that Christians around the world would secretly praise his actions against the Jews while castigating them in public. I'm also fairly sure you'd be joining them.
Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commands." As you have yet to do that, I have to go with you either haven't read the Bible or you don't understand it.
Strange for one who loves and believes it...
Jc,
I know your game. Believe me it would be too easy to work at not understanding anything you're saying like you and Anonymouse are doing.
What's funny is I think you are re-using an analogy I used on you - maybe I am "wearing you down". I figured Anonymouse would check his "year at a glance" and give date and time (from his 24 hour watch).
Which is what I think you apply to the Scriptures. I can't herd you in to it. You work at misunderstanding it and I have to hand it to you. I know success when I see it.
Also it's thoughtful that you warn posters about your intellect. It would be unfair to let someone come on here half conscious, believing, trusting and not be aware in advance of the great atheist acumen here. I've always wanted to be warned of perspicacity and hopefully straight from the genius him or herself so I can get out of the way and let the horses go through...then watch my step.
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Offline Jc,
Where did you get that analogy - that sounds familiar. Anonymouse would know.
But anyway, you're not the only one that has read the Bible, I heard Hitler did. And, yes I have, several times. But there is a difference - I believe it totally. And one thing I've noticed it doesn't say, "He who wins Bible trivia will be saved" - but "believe in Jesus and you will be saved".
Westboro Baptist Church, that proclaims it's hatred for gay people and waves signs at military funerals that read " Thank God for Dead U.S. soldiers would tell you that they "believe" in Jesus.
The Snake Handler Branch of the Pentecostal Religion, that proclaims that you must pick up a venomous snake to prove your faith (they get it out of Luke and other parts of the New Testament) "believes" very strongly in Jesus.
Christian Identity, that teaches the 12 Lost Tribes of Israel are the European Races and God's chosen people are white people "believe" in Jesus. In fact, they'll tell you, just like Hitler, that Jesus was an enemy of the Jewish people and that Jewish people are children of the devil. They operate all over the country and openly preach violence against non-white people and gay people.
These are just a few sects of extremist people that would tell you that they "believe" wholly in the teachings of Jesus. Do you believe that they have messages of truth in their doctrines?
Now if you believe in the absolutes of the Bible, why do all the different sects of Christianity each condemn the other for not having the "true" definition of what Jesus wished. Why do such radical groups like the ones mentioned above even exist ?
Tell me this, how do you account for some of the hate-filled, temper tantrum, childish jealousy and rage that is apparent all through the teachings of Jesus ? From what I have read of the Bible, Jesus was not a nice guy in any way, shape form or fashion. In fact, his attitude would line up quite well with some of these hate filled churches that I have just named above. How do you account for this sort of behavior ? How do you account for all of the crimes that have been committed in the name of the book that you deem to have the "truth" ?How many people have been burned, hanged, tortured or even worse over the Bible ?
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
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Offline Jc,
I know your game.
Everybody does. It's called being supernaturally patient. Not a very exciting game. More like an act of kindness.
Believe me it would be too easy to work at not understanding anything you're saying like you and Anonymouse are doing.
I never made any bones about not understanding what you're going on about, or why you do what you do here.
That's why I asked you questions.
Which you never answer.
As for JC, why would you have to "work at not understanding", when you simply ignore his arguments every time you force him to repeat them ? How is that "work" ?
What's funny is I think you are re-using an analogy I used on you - maybe I am "wearing you down".
Difference being he has more than just analogies, you don't, so your "analogies" are just insults.
You're proud of wearing people down with insults ?
I figured Anonymouse would check his "year at a glance" and give date and time (from his 24 hour watch).
It's called having a memory.
You've already made it clear you disapprove of being reminded of your own words.
You know, if you don't want people to remember all the nasty and contradictory stuff you say,...
...then maybe you shouldn't say those things ?
Which is what I think you apply to the Scriptures. I can't herd you in to it. You work at misunderstanding it and I have to hand it to you. I know success when I see it.
Actually, he has simply pointed out, as have many others over the years, just exactly why your interpretation doesn't make any sense. For this, he had many arguments. If you follow this particular trail back a few posts (all the way to #2311) , you'll come across his current argument that you've been running away from.
You could save us all a lot of time if you dealt with his arguments directly.
Also it's thoughtful that you warn posters about your intellect. It would be unfair to let someone come on here half conscious, believing, trusting and not be aware in advance of the great atheist acumen here. I've always wanted to be warned of perspicacity and hopefully straight from the genius him or herself so I can get out of the way and let the horses go through...then watch my step.
*sigh*
..but why bother with people's arguments or questions when you can have a go at being sarcastic.
Okay, I'll try again. Did you make the "What Faith You" thread ?
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.
No disrespect received. Well, it might appear that way; however, typically a slave is under the thumb of their owner, whereas I voluntarily allow myself to be conformed. I forgive instead of holding grudges, I help instead of being selfish, I sacrifice self for the better of others, etc. I find myself wanting little and giving more. There is no focus on 'consequences', I do not walk around in fear, only in a freedom to chose that which is good, even if it means I do not benefit.
No disrespect, but I believe you might do the same; however, you do it for self, an imposed righteousness (I'm good because I do things for others). I have no righteousness. I know my roots and it isn't pretty by any stretch of imagination. I choose to take on His righteousness and go about doing for Him, not me.
I'm not sure I'm being clear, but I want you to know, again, I do not fear consequences. I have the freedom not to choose that which tempts me.
Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend.
with his own dogma, Hes.
And no - neither of us has real freedom. I'm not entirely sure what the definition of actual freedom is, to be honest. We are social creatures and our freedom is constrained by the agreeableness and empathy intrinsic to our natures. If you were 'free' to kill, would you do it? What evil would you do to another if you were 'free' to do it?
I don't believe you conform to the image of an exo-universal cloud of gas, Hes. You are simply a decent man and a product of this planet - a direct descendent of the first archaeans. To be honest, that's all that matters to me. To comprehend our descent from the first organisms on earth is far more revelatory than anything the gospel ever stirred in me.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
This is error, ""Because I'm not perfect I can still do all those things that I got forgiveness for at first and get forgiveness every time!". Yes, I can choose, I am free to do so, but I don't have to. Can I err, yes - so can you. It's not how you see me, it is how He sees me. He's not some ogre that wants to pound you into mush because you err. It might appear that way, but it isn't like that at all.
Morality is choosing what is good. The problem is defining what is good. To some, self gratification is good; however, it is "self"ish. That self gratification takes many forms, none of which are new under the sun. BTW, what's so wrong about being forgiven? Wouldn't you want that? Or would you rather serve under a tyrant knowing your last breath could be at any minute. Grace and forgiveness is receiving something you didn't earn instead of something you certainly deserve.
Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend.
Well, that might be a good discussion, "real freedom." The first time I was exposed to the idea that a person could be killed by another person was at a very young age. I even played 'army' with my friends pretending to fight battles against one another. The thing was I didn't have the desire to kill - we were just playing. I can honestly say that I've never had the desire to kill. Have I been angry enough to inflict harm on another? Yes. I guess you would call that intrinsic. The idea of being wronged and taking revenge seems to be very much part of us AE.
I don't think I can imagine an evil that I would want to do to another if I had free license to do so. And I understand that I'm operating through a filter I never had before. Prior to 1990 I easily chose anger, took revenge, took matters into my own hands. For the last 20 years, I haven't and never will. Why? It's not because of the commandment. It's because that characteristic of my self is gone. I didn't choose to make it go, it's gone. I don't get angry any more: I do get frustrated and 99.9% of that is with myself and how I impact others. I have learned to bow my 'self'.
You yourself remarked one time that if your life depended on saving mankind you would freely give it, so would I. That's the message of the gospel - someone has. I know you reject the 66 books on a spiritual level, and even the thing you call an exo-universal cloud of gas (as a side-note, I love the language you use, very imaginative and, at times, makes me laugh). Your stated desire is mature and acknowledges, IMO, that there's something wrong and it needs fixing.
Trust me, after 1990 my choices of what to do and how to do it have drastically changed. I didn't understand love (not the mushy stuff), and even today I have yet to grasp its depth, but I sure do want to have it and let it pour out of me.
Would love to have some face time, it's the best way to communicate. Thanks for your kindness.
Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend.
Anonymouse,
If you knew me better you could say worse things and they would be true. All that and I am a happy guy.
Have you been able to comprehend what it is that makes you so happy?
"Say worse things" ? I asked you questions. Didn't get any answers as per usual, but are you going to take offense at questions as well now ?
If you're not going to answer simple questions, then how is anyone supposed to understand what you're talking about, make sense of your contradictions, etc ?
All what ?
I already told you that. It's other people.
Why ask people questions if you can't be bothered to remember their answers ? You just keep doing that, again and again and again.
Enough.
Go away.
Sure, Fonzie.
The writers of the Bible (as with other myths) wrote with the purpose of escapism. Life in those times was a steaming pile of guano so they needed something positive that they as believers could look forward to and also a chance to dream about a divine vengeance being dealt to those who they felt were against them. In this day and age, the average human's life isn't so difficult. It is a relatively simple matter for the majority of us to go and get the things we need and want without invoking God. Some of us have also outgrown the need for revenge.
Did I say that good deeds were "flattering God"? If so, I apologize. I understand that one does not need to do good deeds to be on God's good side. In fact, one can do as many evil deeds as they desire as long as the number of times forgiveness is asked for exceeds the total of evil deeds by one. Or one can simply rest on what they have and do nothing to help those in need.
The main purpose for doing good deeds is to keep score among other Christians. After all, you still have the judgment seat of Christ after the judgment at the great white throne and you have to make sure your slice of heaven is better than all the other Christians, right?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Jc,
Well, it's tricky. At the point you lost faith in God and started putting faith in your own view of things - then, it's no longer the Word of God in your view, it's whatever your view is and view becomes. If it's not the Word of God..... (which it is however).....then your view would be as good as any.
To me, however, it is the Word of God and as the Scriptures say, the writers didn't write their own ideas (or their own interpretation) but spoke as the Holy Spirit moved them. Thus when I come to the Word of God it is the authority. I submit to it and endeavor to understand things I don't understand - still knowing they are eternally right.
So, I'm saying the turning point is again faith - faith that God is, The Word of God is as it claims to be - and Jesus is Savior. If you turn away from faith then you make a rudderless launch into a sea of endless wrong possibilities in your view of the Scriptures.
What I meant by, "it's tricky" is; if you accept the Word of God and have faith in it as the Word of God and the God Who wrote it and His Son, then in accepting the Word of God you see that most things are not as standard reasoning would direct. For example; the experience of Job and Eliphaz's and his two friends' wrong view of it/ Ecclesiastes, (i.e.) "it is better to be in the house of mourning than the house of feasting", "the day of death is better than the day of birth" "sorrow is better than laughter"/ The Gospel is something man would never think of - a mystery hidden for ages.
The messengers of the gospel were certainly not "escapists" - they died rather than renounce their faith in their message and Savior. Jesus certainly was not an escapist - He went step by step to the Cross.
Fonzie,
Do you see the circularity in your argument?
You believe the Bible is the word of God because it says so. With that standard you'd have to believe the Qu'ran with equal fervor. You have to take the Gita more seriously because it claims to be a conversation between gods.
You don't do that, do you? In fact, you don't like all of the Jewish scripture that comprise the Old Testament unless you can re-interpret them in the light of Paul's religion.
Ah, faith. It doesn't seem to be enough to just have faith, does it? One has to have faith in a certain, unspecified amount (unfortunately not the mustard seed that Jesus stated) and you have to exercise it in the way that the church leaders tell you. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people who prayed to be healed from a disease be told that they "didn't have enough faith" because they weren't healed immediately or at all.
The writers of the Gospels were indeed esacpists - they believed they were escaping into the afterlife that they fully believed in (and helped create).
I think I've told you this before but it bears repeating. If I could go on the cross, die and come back after three days and be God (or some believe return to being God) I'd do it in a heartbeat. Sign me up!
You managed to prove my point about escapism nicely. Thanks.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Jc,
No, I don't. I have been captivated and changed by the gospel story and power. I'm not on a circular trip but straight line with a little wobble - I'm not tail chasing in my thinking but focused on the Living Way. I don't find anything that rings true in any other than Christ.
You are seeing circles from your own orbit. Your thinking is tied to an approach to life without God, dust to dust, "round and round goes the wind...all things are full of weariness". When God visits the heart and soul the dust to dust wheel is broken and abandoned.
If you or I could be on the cross then lost forever that would be less than payment for our debt - no payment for others, much less payment for all sin for all time as was the Lamb of God. In your thinking there you are where we deserved to be but for the grace of God you have kindly refused as you have healed your own wound lightly.
But Light has come to my orbit and blasted out and focused on it. And the progress is encouraging. If the Gospel writers have "escaped" and I can escape with them - then you can have the duck. I'll take the escape.
You don't ? No problem, I'll quote it so you can try to read it again :
It's simple : Your argument doesn't make sense because, when you feel like it, you ignore it.
Read the qu'ran, have you ? The point is that your method for judging something to "ring true" would make it just as true as your bible.
So it's your own fault. All those books "ring true", if you take your own arguments seriously.
That's the point that was made, so that's the point you ignored again.
He told you about himself every time you asked him a question, and yet you still insist on making stuff up.
Who do you keep doing that ?
Why ask people questions if you'd rather ingore their answers, so you can make claims about them you already know not to be true ?
Thanks to your consistent dishonesty, we now know that's not true.
He said he'd do it if he got the same result, the implication being that it wasn't such a big sacrifice, taking into account what the other JC got out of it.
A good point, which you seem to have missed completely by saying it would never happen.
Try again.
If god wants you to lie to us, then yeah, he should be pretty pleased by now.
Right.
So not only did you prove his point, you actually agree with it.
You could have told him that three years ago.
You big tease, you.
Anonymouse,
Merry Christmas to you and all and the best for a new year.
Notice I leave your posts "intact" as "sliced".
May you get all your questions answered this year (though that - like government programs - could itself represent eternity).
Also remember the old saying that "a fool can ask questions a wise man can't answer" - and I don't claim to be a wise man. But a question for you is: would a fool know answers if he heard or read them? I don't know, you can check that out scientifically - but I have found all the answers I need in the Scriptures, which all ring true to the Spirit of Christ within me. The Holy Spirit has a role in bringing the thoughts of man to God and the thoughts of God to man. Who knows the thoughts of a man except his spirit - even if he doesn't know he has one?
I believe the Bible is the Word of God because it has proved itself so in me. I have experienced the power of the gospel I have spoken about and I am experiencing it. I have read some of the Qu-'ran, some of the Pearl of Great Price, some of the Watchtower, some of the Satanic bible - and I'm not at all concerned about my choice. You make yours with intuition and culture or whatever - I have made mine. My choice is proving Himself - "Live" every day. And if that isn't enough the heavens declare it - the Glory of God. There is no place their voice is not heard.
At one time a star led wise men to the Savior where there was proverbially no "room in the inn" - which has been the case with the world for its Maker. So don't worry Anonymouse, you're nothing unusual, nothing special rejecting Jesus. You're in the majority. There's more chaff than corn. You not only have chaff quality, you have chaff company. So get answers and hopefully put on weight in the new year so you don't blow away.
Fonzie,
He wasn't in the manger when the Magi arrived. They found a house to stay in and the kid was a toddler by then.
If you're going to use the story, get it right.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Merry christmas to you and your loved ones as well. Happy new year already ? You taking a break next week ?
Not sure what you mean by that.
Just getting you to answer a single question honestly will do me fine.
So, how about it ?
Oh good. In that case, your old saying is irrelevant, and we can move on.
Well, I don't claim to be a fool, so that question is irrelevant as well.
Moving right along...
As would any scripture in any holy text, which is where you run into trouble, as was pointed out in JC's post, a point you are now ignoring for the third time. (Nah, you've ignored this plenty more times than that. He's brought it up many times over the years. Not that you care)
Are you trying to tell me you don't know your own thoughts ?
You haven't read all of it, so you have no idea what you're rejecting. Anyway, the point, which you're ignoring again (not sure why I'm even bothering to point that out), was that your method for judging something to "ring true" would make any other religion just as true as your bible.
Nope, I have told you many times, and you have asked me many times. Clearly, you don't think it's worth your while to remember my answer.
Which brings up, yet again, the evermore relevant question : Why do you keep asking people questions if you don't care about the answers ?
Try your local mosque. Heck, try having a talk with one of your fellow christians. You'll find they're hearing a very different voice indeed.
All those different, contradicting voices, all of them "proving" themselves every day, to their individual creators. Such are the perks of making stuff up.
Uhm, actually, there were no inns in those days, and according to the greek text, he was born in a room.
Sorry.
Did I say I was ? Nope, I didn't.
It really doesn't matter at all what I actually say, does it ? You don't like what I say, so you just make stuff up.
I'm not rejecting jesus. I'm rejecting your lies and dishonesty.
I wasn't aware the two were connected.
No, I'm not. Can't you count ?
Er, no, I don't. You don't read my posts at all, do you ? Most of my loved ones are theist. I told you that hundreds of times.
You just quite simply don't care, do you ?
Lol ! But you refuse to give them to me !
Nice. Love and kisses to you too.
To the mods : Why not give the entire forum a nice christmas present and close this thread ? You closed his first two, so why not this one ?